Monday, 23 July 2012

Atheism disscussion in Second Life.

Following a chat with people near and dear to me about religion... here are some sources which put iron in my words.

Firstly, why bother? Angry at god?
No, if I get angry it is because religion kills people, religious people make decisions which effect me, and you. If I'm angry, I have good reason, not nearly as much reason as many of the people I know in SL should have.
The list of things to be angry about starts at 6:00


Why Are You Atheists So Angry? Greta Christina Skepticon 4


As for the idea that Jesus was angel who was believed in by some pre-Christian Jews... Richard Carrier mentions it here [16:07]. Unfortunately he cites his own book for the citations-- which i don't have. And I have not been able to find any reference to it elsewhere. In fact it is usually said that Philo of Alexandria never mentions Jesus. So I'd would love to see some discussion between scholars about this. But If Carrier says it, there is probably a discussion to be had.

Richard Carrier: The Historicity of Jesus

As for Hitler and the Nazis, Christians used to be scared of the occult, so they labeled him an oculist. Now they are terrified of Atheists so they call him an Atheist. It is indisputable he was Catholic. The writings of Martin Luther obviously had more impact that folkish paganism.  
Hitler: The Atheist

By the way, Christians are also blaming Nazism on Darwin and Evolution. But in Hitler's own words he seems to have been against Evolution and a proponent of Intelligent Design.


As for nasty stuff in the bible, there is no end of it in the Old Testament, but what would Jesus do?

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them."
I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished."

So... until heaven and earth disappear, until the rapture, old testament law stands, every pen-stroke of it...

...that includes the hating on gays, rules on masturbation, prohibition on shell fish and pork, prohibition on wearing mixed fabrics, rules on slavery, idol worship, etc.

Are we sure? I mean is that what he meant? Even the nasty stuff about stoning children to death?

You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to the traditions of men.
And he said to them: "You have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order to observe your own traditions!
For Moses said, 'Honor your father and your mother,' and, 'Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.'"

But surely Jesus loves all the little children... If I was going to start a religion, the first rule I would put in would be the protection of children!

And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life.

Oh, I see. We are supposed to abandon our children. How silly of me. This is probably because whoever made up this nonsense thought that the world was about to end.

“Don't imagine that I came to bring peace on earth! No, rather a sword lf you love your father, mother, sister, brother, more than me, you are not worthy of being mine.“ 

Sounds abusive to me. But then the new testament is infinitely worse than any of the rape and slaughter of the old testament.  It introduces an entirely new concept, the idea that the only way to find salvation is blind unquestioning devotion to Jesus, the ONLY alternative to this is eternal torture. I'm not sure I could really condone torture under any circumstances, but for eternity? Not much of a choice is it.

Fred Phelps and his family are doing it right. They know and understand the bible, they don't just cherry-pick the bits they like, or that suit them. Their views are entirely consistent with what the bible actually says. The reason they seem bat-shit crazy is that the bible is a bat-shit crazy book of hateful bad ideas.

Talk to me about biblical morality? This is a set of rules that say that rapists have to marry their victims, and you can be stoned to death for picking up sticks on the wrong day.

It is a book where Jesus has tantrums and murders fig trees for being out of season and where god sends bears to kill children. A book of talking donkeys in a flat world with a metal sky. Fairy stories which have no place being used as a standard by which to judge modern life.



Okay, slightly less relevant, here is a 'quick and dirty' overview of the historicity of Jesus which mentions Jesus of Pandera, who I think could have been an attempt to make a mythical Jesus human in order to kill him as a heretic.

David Fitzgerald ~ Examining he Existence of Jesus

...and professor Hector Avolos (Starts at 2:35) continued here
Hector Avalos: How Archeology Killed Biblical History



  And Dr. Robert Price